First Cyberpunk Novel before Cyberpunk became a genre by that name . . .

topic posted Tue, November 18, 2008 - 2:50 PM by  Powers
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Make a compelling argument if it is not self-explaining.

For example - Frankenstein can be argued to be one of the first Sci-fi novels before sci-fi was coined.

An easy answer will be Philip K Dick even stretching back to film version of written ideas like War Games, RoboCop and Runaway - but how about reaching back a few decades or more getting creative and going further back

like - Clifford D. Simak's novel CITY - 1952
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City...mak_novel)

like - Alfred Bester's novel THE STARS MY DESTINATION - 1956
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...estination

posted by:
Powers
Los Angeles
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  • I second Bester's book -- one of my all-time-favorite sci-fi novels.

    But don't forget such works as "Brave New World" (1931) or "1984" (1948), both of which laid out important foundations of cyberpunk, such as technologically dystopian societies with information technology used as mechanisms for control.
    • I dunno, If you really want to include just distopian societies, then lets reach back tot he first one: Utopia by Plato.
      • "just distopian societies"?

        I was pretty specific what kind of dystopias they needed to be. :)
        • No, what I'm digging at is that without a real definition of cyberpunk, pretty much ALL SF qualifies in one form or another. I feel like pretty much a purist in this area.
          Cyber - involves cybernetics
          Punk - Involves Punk culture

          Wiki defines punk culture thusly: "The punk subculture is based around punk rock. It emerged from the larger rock music scene in the mid-to-late-1970s in the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia, and Japan. The punk movement has spread around the globe and developed into a number of different forms. Punk culture encompasses distinct styles of music, ideologies, fashion, visual art, dance, literature, and film. Punk also lays claim to a lifestyle and community.[1] The punk scene is composed of an assortment of smaller subcultures, such as Oi! and pop punk. These subcultures distinguish themselves through unique expressions of punk culture. Several subcultures have developed out of punk to become distinct in their own right, including hardcore, goth and psychobilly. The punk movement has had a tumultuous relationship with popular culture, and struggles to resist commercialization and appropriation."

          Thus anything written before about 1970 is unlikely to involve both elements. And while I agree that Punk culture is somewhat about embracing the dystopic elements in our culture, I do not agree that a cyberpunk work, per force, needs to be completely dystopic.

          By reaching for any SF with a dystopic gleam and having anything to do with information, you've just broadstroked over 90% of SF written in the last 3000 years.
          • Tedward, my friend, you can't just break a compound neologism into its component parts and expect that the separate definitions of the parts is magically equal to the whole word. Look at the word "splatterpunk" -- it was used to describe a new, edgy type of horror writing, and had nothing to do with punk culture per se.

            The definition of "cyberpunk" has been quite exhaustively discussed in this very tribe:

            cyberpunk.tribe.net/thread/c...c74ef0d04

            You'll note that you yourself in this very thread talk about the need for cyberpunk stories to "explore a distopia (sic)." :)

            Also, I was specifically pointing out that those two influential novels contained very specific kinds of dystopias in which information was tightly controlled, hence their important influence on the cyberpunk genre.

            Sure, cyberpunk has threads that overlap cybernetics and punk culture, but it's also its own thing that encompasses so much more. And I think that it's problematic to be a purist about defining the word when it's actually a very flexible term that covers a lot of territory.
            • In the case of splatterpunk, I take that the same way that every political snafu now ends in "-gate". Steam Punk, splatter punk, etc. are nods to the original cyberpunk.

              And although cyberpunk's definition was discussed exhaustively, I don't recall any kind of serious consensus coming of it. And, if you're going to quote me, get the whole quote: "To me, it needs to be involved with man's direct and personal involvement with technology (bioware, nano tech, etc) rather than just making use of it (like time travel). Then it needs to explore a distopia (though not necessarily show the start of end of it), and it needs that film noir quality (ie. punk/indu/goth)."

              But, yes, picking nits over definitions is pretty much useless. And since I don't enjoy these kind of threads, I'll step out here.
    • Huxley was someone who appropriated other people's material for his own quest of fame and fortune. I don't have much respect for him as a professional. As a person, he was okay. But, as a professional, he lacked that sense of awareness and respect that comes with being a professional, and in this day and age would be called awareness and respect of someone else's intellectual property. 1984? Cyberpunk? HG Wells' Time machine was pretty intense. For a new interpretation, see Tranceporter 3.

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