Evolutionary Engineering

topic posted Tue, May 8, 2007 - 12:19 PM by  Kaosen
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"Even though the circuit consists of only a small number of basic components, the researcher, Adrian Thompson, does not know how it works. He can't ask the designer because there wasn't one."

www.netscrap.com/netscrap_detail.cfm
posted by:
Kaosen
Raleigh
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  • Re: Evolutionary Engineering

    Tue, May 8, 2007 - 10:34 PM
    Very nice -- I've been waiting for more news like this since reading Stephen Levy's book "Artificial Life" over ten years ago. In it he discusses evolutionary software, and mentioned -- as this article does -- that people won't be able to figure out how such software (or engineered circuits) will work; that they will be too complex for us to puzzle apart.

    I truly believe that where AI research has a real chance of surprising (and scaring) us lies in this kind of development. In my view, only evolutionary algorithms can produce the complexity needed to replicate consciousness. I'll go further to say that it might be possible that consciousness can't be built or designed by humans, but only grown or evolved.
  • Re: Evolutionary Engineering

    Wed, May 9, 2007 - 9:50 PM
    That is an amazing experiment covered in that article. It almost seems like there is a real parallel of natural vs. unnatural order. What really strikes me is that there seems to be no logical (mathematical or otherwise) explanation as to how this evolution is taking place.
    • Re: Evolutionary Engineering

      Thu, May 10, 2007 - 8:25 PM
      "What really strikes me is that there seems to be no logical (mathematical or otherwise) explanation as to how this evolution is taking place."

      I'd say the logical, mathematical explanation is found in the evolutionary algorithms used to create the software in question, and that created us.
  • Re: Evolutionary Engineering

    Mon, September 10, 2007 - 12:25 PM
    As I was exploring the rest of this web site I noticed this article was posted back in 1998. Makes one wonder how much progress has been made since then. The little conspiracy theorist in the back of my head is also whispiring things that are likely obvious to most of you. Hmmm....
    • Re: Evolutionary Engineering

      Thu, September 13, 2007 - 11:33 AM
      I found another article that builds on the netscrap one and talks about NASA utilizing it and such. From this year even :) The things that came from NASA's utilization are kinda creepy. They remind me of when I had to study virii under microscopes.

      www.damninteresting.com/
      • Re: Evolutionary Engineering

        Thu, September 13, 2007 - 6:12 PM
        That is super bad-ass, indeed. The key paragraph:

        "It seems that evolution had not merely selected the best code for the task, it had also advocated those programs which took advantage of the electromagnetic quirks of that specific microchip environment. The five separate logic cells were clearly crucial to the chip's operation, but they were interacting with the main circuitry through some unorthodox method– most likely via the subtle magnetic fields that are created when electrons flow through circuitry, an effect known as magnetic flux. There was also evidence that the circuit was not relying solely on the transistors' absolute ON and OFF positions like a typical chip; it was capitalizing upon analogue shades of gray along with the digital black and white."

        This seems to set us up for both quantum computing and the potential for machine intelligence. And it makes you wonder -- how much of human consciousness is caused by magnetic flux reactions between neurons? It adds weight to the idea that the brain is already a quantum computer.
        • Re: Evolutionary Engineering

          Fri, September 14, 2007 - 5:44 PM
          Seriously. When I was reading that part it gave me the chills as even reading it again now is. I always knew the next step in computing, as can only be logical since life and pretty much how everything in the universe is not binary, would be maybe logic. Long before I knew RAW wrote a book and registered the domain name "Maybe Logic" it just made sense to me that for AI to really get more realistic, it'd have to use maybe logic like the rest of us. I bet early man was closer to operating on a binary type system where things definitely were or definitely were not. Lions were definitely not easy to take down, caves were definitely a way to get in out of the elements. Then maybe came in, either on accident or by observation and started using things around us as tools. Wind, like magnetic fields is invisible but through observation we thought, maybe if we put up something thats a little more solid it can move us along with it. Like the experiment, we had to learn to utilize the sun as our clock where each cycle they had a certain amount of time they could get something done before it was dark. The better they got at understanding the sun and the moon, thus creating for them the clock, the more they could use it to their advantage to noticing the speed at which events happen.

          On that thought it made me think about the "What if we're already living in a simulation." thread. I mean, for how many thousands of years did we solely rely on a trial and error kinda system before we refined things enough to setup other things to do all the trial and error checking in less harmful ways mimic'ing our own reality to understand it. We've about hit the point where while we can still make advancements in technology ourselves, like a creator why not let something else do a lot of the work for us while we can focus on other things too and come back and observe it every now and again.

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